Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: Speed
OK, I figure this is probably a touchy subject in the hearts and minds of the developers here.
I have a G-4 Macintosh. It runs at 1GHz and I have 1.5G of Real RAMâ„¢ installed. I have plenty (over 100G) of free capacity on my main hard drive and my Mac is not using the hard drive pagefile. In other words, the hamsters are running as fast as they can. I use OS X 10.3.9. Running 2.0 Aqua Beta 3 Patch 12.
Neo Office is slow. It takes a long time to start up (three minutes on the splash screen) and it reacts slowly to commands. I put together a slide show. It was not very quick and I would have liked a bit more ease of editing on it.
The word processor slows to an absolute crawl on larger documents.
Were I doing a research paper, I'd have to re-adopt Microsoft Word. Same if I were writing a manual.
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject:
It is true that NeoOffice loads much slower than many other apps, although it is faster than it used to be. In a recent thread Patrick explained that much of this is due to the large size of the OpenOffice.org binaries that have to load.
Three minutes seems a bit excessive, though. I have an iBook G4 with 1.5 gig RAM and <10 gig free on the hard drive, and I don't think it takes that long on my machine (I haven't timed it, though).
If you haven't done so already, you should check out the "Performance" section of this page of the wiki.
The slide show does run slower than Power Point, but the speed is very dependant on the transition effects and the shapes used. Patrick has done a lot of work on this, but there are limits to what he can do given OpenOffice.org's use of XORing. Reading through this thread will give you both some background on the issue, and identify those transitions that are the least usable.
In terms of Writer, what do you consider a "larger document?"
Finally, if spell check is slow, turn of "check in all languages" in Preferences>Language Settings>Writing Aids.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject:
Welcome to NeoOffice mhollis,
To add to the possible causes - using Mac OS X 10.3.x has some major problems.
1. Are you using Java 1.4 or Java 1.5?
If I remember correctly(?), Java 1.5 only runs on Mac OS X 10.4.x.
There we major changes, improvements, fixes when NeoOffice moved to Java 1.5
2. If you are using Java 1.4, what version are you using? I think one of the versions had MAJOR problems,
3. There are problems running 10.3.x and could NOT be fixed without upgrading to 10.4.x.
I don't remember them all.
4. Plus, once Mac OS X 10.5 is released, I don't think the developers will be able to maintain support for 10.3.x.
5. Font problems?
Make sure you check out the Performance Wiki page!
Yah, it launches faster and runs quicker than that on my FP iMac 800Mhz dome with 512MB of RAM running OS X 10.2.8. You obviously have some other issues. Suggest d/l'ing something called Onyx and running that to optimize your Mac and get those Gremlins outta there.
P.S. Feel like giving some of that RAM away? j/k (just kidding...) Actually I have 768MB of Ram in mine but the built-in 256MB is bad so I have to block it out upon every reboot.
OK, this is without checking the speed sites yet...
Looking in "About this Mac", clicking on the More Info button opens System Profiler. Under Software>Applications, I have three listings for Java:
Java 1.3.1 Plugin Settings:
Version: 2.0.0
Last Modified: 9/2/04 11:28 PM
Location: /Applications/Utilities/Java/Java 1.3.1 Plugin Settings.app
Get Info String: 1.0.0, Copyright 2002 Apple Computer.
Java 1.4.2 Plugin Settings:
Version: 2.2.0
Last Modified: 9/15/05 6:53 AM
Location: /Applications/Utilities/Java/Java 1.4.2 Plugin Settings.app
Get Info String: 2.1.0 (for JDK 1.4.2), Copyright 2003, 2004 Apple Computer, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Java Web Start:
Version: 2.2.0
Last Modified: 9/15/05 6:53 AM
Location: /Applications/Utilities/Java/Java Web Start.app
Get Info String: Java Web Start version 1.4.2, Copyright 2003 Apple Computer.
So someone with more knowledge here as to what I do have would be appreciated. I'm not sure I particularly want to upgrade this Mac to 10.4.x as the computer is probably nearing EOL but, as a mini-tower, it ougot to be able to perform word processing, spreadsheet and presentation tasks—and do that for a while yet.
I should mention that this computer was purchased for editing video. That's what I do for a living.
i want to make it clear, with respect to the presentation I built: This presentation was built by a total fumbler who doesn't know how to build them (me) from scratch. I did not import a Power Point file to do this.
I do not believe that I have font issues. I have not added many more than the standard Apple OS X typefaces and the typefaces Microsoft makes you install for their suite.
"Larger document" for me is one that needs to build its own table of contents and handle end notes and, perhaps, an index. Minimum 30 pages and in terms of a manual I tried to open in Writer (created in Word, saved a backup copy before the attempt) had 240 pages with illustrations, TOC, Index, footnotes and about 5 notes per chapter. I know, I know. Everyone is going to tell me it should have been laid out in Quark. But Word can do it and I expect Writer to, as well. Writer crashed horribly and mangled the document (again, I only attempted this with a copy because I had a feeling...).
I did not notice slowness in terms of spell check. That section seems just fine, though I cannot say I tested it adequately in the large document.
I am not running Seti@Home or any other background software. I timed Neo Office with a wristwatch with no other applications running. Well, that's not true.
Startup Items:
iCal Alarm Scheduler
Palm Desktop Background
Transport Monitor (Palm)
HP Photosmart Menu
iTunes Helper
System Events
They were all running. They run when the Microsoft suite opens. If Microsoft Office X opens faster than anything, save an Adobe application, I generally think there is something wrong wiith that application.
Three minutes is a bit excessive. I also note that Neo Office opens up Safari and that takes me to a "Donate Now" page, but I think the word processor has all ready initialized and started.
Click on the Apple at top left of Finder Menu (actually you can be in any app) and select System Preferences--> Login Items
Uncheck anything shown in there except System Events (although that's not even shown in my Log In items) You can always reverse this (recheck items) after you test.
Log Out (from the Apple icon--> Log Out... and then Log back in and then launch NeoOffice again and see if it runs faster. If it doesn't they are ruled out.
I stll think you need to d/l an app called Onyx (just enter Onyx in the Google field of your Fav Brower (Safari seems to be your default set) and install that and run it. It gives you a whole bunch of things to do to perform Maintenance on your Mac.
You could always start NeoOffice first thing in the morning if you shut down nightly or simply leave it running all the time if you don't and that will work around the long launch time problem.
You could also d/l and install an app called Diablotin (although not sure if it works in Panther, 10.3 or is still avaiable) that goes in the System Prefereneces Folder and it will let you select what Start Up items to launch upon reboot similar to checking off what Log In items will load. These include, Contextual Menu Items, Fonts, Internet Pllug-ins, Menu Extras, Prefernces Panes, Quicktime, Screen Savers (does anybody use those anymore?), Sounds and the aformentioned, SU Items. The Readme should walk you thru installation just like the Onyx readme should. Then you could turn stuff off and back on (uncheck and recheck) between boots and/or Log Outs/Log Ins and see if it makes a hill of beans of difference; then you can point at Neo as the culprit.
Don't know if you need Java 1.5 or not but you obviously don't have it. Must be a Mac OX 10.4 Tiger thing like QT 7. I curse Mr. J's billy-sesque behavior on that one... Totally unacceptable to me you can't go to Apple's own website and see movie trailers with anything less than QT 7. That's BS...
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 am Post subject:
mhollis wrote:
i want to make it clear, with respect to the presentation I built: This presentation was built by a total fumbler who doesn't know how to build them (me) from scratch. I did not import a Power Point file to do this.
Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, the "unusable" effects and shapes are not related to PowerPoint, but to how the developers of the OpenOffice.org project chose to implement some things. If I've understood Patrick correctly, those choices make sense for Windows and Linux, but slows things down on a Mac.
mhollis wrote:
"Larger document" for me is one that needs to build its own table of contents and handle end notes and, perhaps, an index. Minimum 30 pages and in terms of a manual I tried to open in Writer (created in Word, saved a backup copy before the attempt) had 240 pages with illustrations, TOC, Index, footnotes and about 5 notes per chapter. I know, I know. Everyone is going to tell me it should have been laid out in Quark. But Word can do it and I expect Writer to, as well. Writer crashed horribly and mangled the document (again, I only attempted this with a copy because I had a feeling...).
Certainly NeoOffice is capable doing all those things. There was a discussion in a recent thread about the maximum workable size of a Writer document, but I can't find it at the moment. It's possible that breaking the document up into chapters and settting up a master document might improve Neo's performance, but I'm by no means certain; I've not worked with master documents or large documents myself. There is a wiki article on master documents, but currently it is only available in French, German, Spanish, and Italian. Translating it into English is on my to-do list, but I haven't gotten to it yet. (My current translation project is the Table of Contents article)
mhollis wrote:
I am not running Seti@Home or any other background software. I timed Neo Office with a wristwatch with no other applications running.
I just timed Neo from click to fully open (with blank Writer doc), and it took less than 30 seconds to do so. That seems faster than usual to me, perhaps because to time it I quit Neo and then restarted immediately. I had six other apps open at the time. (I'll try to remember to time it the next time I do a restart) Some of that difference may be because I'm using OS 10.4, but that shouldn't account for the large difference in our start up times, so I would think there must be something else going on. I hope you didn't hear my early comment about timing as implying your report of three minutes wasn't accurate. I was indicating my own report was subjective, since I hadn't timed it. My apologies if I wasn't clear in that regard.
Oh, and just to be clear, the Java 1.5 comment earlier relates to NeoOffice running properly, not the maintenance or other programs suggested above functioning properly.
Applications start faster the second time around (after first start) assuming you have enough RAM on your Macintosh because runtime libraries are all ready loaded. They persist in memory until/unless the operating system needs to flush them due to lack of RAM (something I don't usually experience. So, Lorinda's experience is not unusual in any application. You can pretty much guarantee that the first launch of most anything will be slower under OS X, Linux or Windoze. All three (to the best of my knowledge) use runtime libraries.
There is also caching of the disk. That will speed up a reload of an application.
Lorinda wrote:
the "unusable" effects and shapes are not related to PowerPoint, but to how the developers of the OpenOffice.org project chose to implement some things. If I've understood Patrick correctly, those choices make sense for Windows and Linux, but slows things down on a Mac.
Huh? You lost me there, Lorinda. (Folks, she's out there and may not be coming back...)
My experience with presentation packages is pretty darn nil. My first ever presentation was a setup for a class my wife intends to teach on the Tarot (highly recommended, folks my wife is outstanding as a card reader). I had scans of all of the cards in the Tarot deck and I imported a sized background, the cards, made a shaded box and placed text on top of that shaded box with bullet points. The text and bullets have a small drop shadow in black to make them pop a little.
I work in television. I know how to design graphic elements (hoo boy do I). I'm looking for work. My reel is here and is more than ample proof that I can put together something graphic. So figuring out a slide show application is pretty easy for me. I suppose it's high praise to the developers of the Neo Office (and Open Office) presentation software that the application is so easy to use that a raw newbie like me could put together a slide show in about four hours. But I do know a thing or two.
The larger document was based on a Microsoft Word Master Document, broken appropriately up into chapters with automatic page numbering, TOC generation, index generation and end-note handling. If Lorinda woud like me to help with her Spanish-to-English translation, I would be happy to do that as an in-kind service donation to the Neo Office project if she will private message me and send me the appropriate link. I'll need the Spanish page and the page where the English is supposed to go.
Now to Guest:
I did that. It's actually System Preferences>Users>Login Items in 10.3, but I got there. turned everything off save System Events. Restarted. Timed Neo Office as the first application started. 3 minutes on the load (splash) screen. And it opens up Safari (default browser) and asks me for money (please see my offer to Lorinda above.
I am prepared to load Onyx but I do regularly use MacJanitor and AppleJack to keep a clean system and I ran AppleJack for a full system scan, check, Permission Repair, disk cache purge and so on, so I should be scrubbed clean as a whistle as of this morning.
Thanks folks for taking my issue on so assiduously.
Wow, my apologies, you obviously know a lot more about Macs than I thought.
It appears that your Mac is one of those that does indeed have "gremlins" at least in terms of how it interacts with NeoOffice so it appears you are destined to remain on "the dark side" with billy if speed matters.
Then again, you could just leave NeoOffice open.
At this point only Pat or ed can possibly suggest a way to solve your speed problems since you have a gig of RAM which should be plenty.
Sorry none of the suggestion so far have helped.
*goes off to look up the meaning of the word "assiduously"*
There may be a lot of legacy stuff on my Mac, as I initially purchased this product with System 9 installed on it. OS X was not (yet) out. I think 10.0 was out the summer after my purchase (December, 1999) and 10.1 folllowed on in the Fall. I waited until Microsoft had their Office suite ported to OS X to upgrade.
So I have had every version of OS X on this computer (no Arhive and Install) since 10.1.x all the way through 10.3.9, which is what I use currently.
Can anyone verify (based on my second message under this topic) that I am running the last and greatest version of Java for my version of the operating system? I don't know any other way to check.
Can anyone verify (based on my second message under this topic) that I am running the last and greatest version of Java for my version of the operating system? I don't know any other way to check.
Use the java version terminal command from the wiki.
Note that the Java version listed for 10.4 is for 10.4.3, which is most certainly not the latest....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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