Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: Fonts issue -- a bug or a feature???
Hi, All,
I have the next issue: Under user account (any user but Administrator, which was used to install Neo Office) I can't see cyrillic fonts in the Text Editor, all characters look as they'd be typed in Arial or something like that. But when I switch keyboard back to English, I can type by several fonts and see appropriate characters (e.g. Times New Roman visually differs from Arial). Editor's font selector shows correct font names when I walk across the text, but visually all cyrillic characters are of the same font.
In the Administrator account I have the correct behaviour.
I installed Neo Office 2.1 and Russian Language Pack under Administrator's account. Now I've installed path 1 but have just the same behaviour.
Fonts may be installed "system wide" (in /System/Library/Fonts/ or /Library/Fonts/, if I recall correctly) but some fonts are installed in ~//Library/Fonts depending on the installation procedure and particularly in the case of non-system additional fonts.
Fonts in one user's Library/Fonts folder will not be available to other users so you may have to install such fonts into your non-admin user account as well or move them from the Admin's Library/Fonts folder to the /Library/Fonts folder so that they are available to all use accounts. Make sure that the permissions are appropriate thereafter too.
Trust this helps. _________________ Ray Saunders
World Scout Bureau
Fonts may be installed "system wide" (in /System/Library/Fonts/ or /Library/Fonts/, if I recall correctly) but some fonts are installed in ~//Library/Fonts depending on the installation procedure and particularly in the case of non-system additional fonts.
Fonts in one user's Library/Fonts folder will not be available to other users so you may have to install such fonts into your non-admin user account as well or move them from the Admin's Library/Fonts folder to the /Library/Fonts folder so that they are available to all use accounts. Make sure that the permissions are appropriate thereafter too.
Trust this helps.
Note that sticking fonts in certain directories doesn't always work. The best bet is to use the /Applications/Font Book application to install or uninstall the fonts that you need.
Note that sticking fonts in certain directories doesn't always work. The best bet is to use the /Applications/Font Book application to install or uninstall the fonts that you need.
Thanks! Font Book opens my eyes! Now I see that in Admin account I have two items for each font: one with cyrillic characters and another one -- without them. Fonts without cyrillic characters are marked by dot sign at right side of the font list. And I see "?" signs when I try to type in Russian in the "font test" pane with a font, marked by "dot" symbol in the font list pane. All the above is in Admin account.
Now I'm loggin out and then loggin in into a user account. I'm opening Font Book and I don't see any fonts, marked by dot symbol, and any font I try to type with, gives me a "?" sign when I try to type in Russian in the "Font Test" pane of the Font Book.
So, the question is -- What is the "dot" symbol's value? Is it related to a user account locale somehow? And why am I seeing two items for every font under the Admin Account and only one item -- under the User account?
And what my action adds the second (cyrillic) item for a font? Maybe I need to install the Office Language Pack for every user account?
I don't know about on 10.4, but on 10.3, the dot indicates that a font is a duplicate (I'm not sure how FontBook decides which font is the "original" and which is the duplicate).
In your case, it sounds like the Admin account has both the Cyrillic-enabled (for lack of a better term) fonts (probably physically located in the Admin account's user folder ~/Library/Fonts) and a duplicate set of non-Cyrillic-enabled fonts (those with the dot), probably physically located in the computer-wide /Library/Fonts folder.
My guess is that disabling those fonts marked with the dot in the Admin account (and possibly again in the other user account; I'm not sure if enabling/disabling is per user), combined with copying the "Cyrillic-enabled" fonts from the Admin account's user folder ~/Library/Fonts to the other user's ~/Library/Fonts folder, will get you working Cyrillic fonts in that other user's account.
Confused yet? So am I
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Thanks for your explanation! It sounds like a correct one... But the question is now: how can I distinguish "right" fonts in the /Libary/Fonts folder without Font Book? Font Book shows font names only, but not the filenames. Any ideas?
Also how could it happen, that Admin account has duplicated fonts? Wasn't it a result of the Office Language Pack installation? Maybe the installer does not check for existing fonts and installs duplicated fonts? And whether installer puts fonts into account's folder or into the system folder? Maybe it is a language pack bug?
Had anybody ever similar problems with national packs installation?
When you open font book you will see the fonts in different catagories listed click All Fonts and select all the fonts by ⌘ + a and then goto the edit menu and click on Resolve Duplicates this will disable the duplicate fonts and any font problems should cease to be there.
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:44 am Post subject:
In terms of how the duplication happens...it's one of the Mac's great mysteries....
OK, I'm being a little facetious. More seriously, I have had repeated problems with duplication of Greek and Hebrew fonts used in a different application. They keep spontaneously duplicating. For some reason, my Mac seems to think it ought to keep a version of them in my users folder when it is imperative that I only have one version and it stay at the root level. (This duplication happens with other fonts, too. I just opened fontbook, and a batch of other fonts have duplicates today)
This may be what is happening to you, too.
You may be able to resolve duplicates "automatically" as suggested above, but I always have to do it "manually" when I run into problems.
With the Font Book open, and the font you want to check highlighted, to to the Preview menu and choose "Show Font Info" (Or just hit Command-I). This will give you a batch of info about the font, including where it is located. Then disable the versions that are in your user account rather than the root account. (Under the Edit Menu choose "Disable.")
Then disable the versions that are in your user account rather than the root account. (Under the Edit Menu choose "Disable.")
I'm sorry but... please re-read my previous message! My main issue is NOT the font duplication but the leak of correct fonts at user account. Of course I can disable duplicated fonts at the Admin account, but it is not my goal. Do you suggest to check Font Info for every "right" font under the Admin account and then copy these font into Library/Fonts of each user? Is it what are you about?
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:59 am Post subject:
I did read your post; but I apparently wasn't clear about what I was responding to. My apologies. You said:
abb wrote:
Also how could it happen, that Admin account has duplicated fonts? Wasn't it a result of the Office Language Pack installation? Maybe the installer does not check for existing fonts and installs duplicated fonts? And whether installer puts fonts into account's folder or into the system folder? Maybe it is a language pack bug?
I was attempting to explain that this duplication of fonts is common, and that I had experienced it with other applications. It may be an issue related to Language Pack installation, I suppose, but I also know that I see duplicated fonts and resulting problems with non-roman alphabets on a regular basis, and that I have not installed any fonts or language packs between the time I fix things in Font Book and the issue occurs again.
I was also
explaining how to identify the location of font files from within Font Book (something you asked about earlier) and
warning that the "Resolve Duplicates" function in Font Book may not turn off the correct version of the fonts, requiring you to do this manually to get things working properly.
I was attempting to explain that this duplication of fonts is common, and that I had experienced it with other applications.
Thank you for your explanation, but my main question was "how to enable these "correct" fonts for all users?". Yje only answer I've got, was "copy "correct" fonts from Admin/Library/Fonts to each user's Library/Fonts". OK, I'll try to do it...
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:55 am Post subject:
abb wrote:
Thank you for your explanation, but my main question was "how to enable these "correct" fonts for all users?".
Ahh, I see. My apologies; I thought the first reference to FontBook had answered that, but reading back I see that it doesn't.
If you haven't done this already (I'm guessing you may have) disable the cyrillic fonts that are stored in your user account, so only those in the "root" directory are turned on. (You can see where the fonts are stored by choosing Showing Font Info under Preview or by pressing Command I) Select one of the remaining fonts with cyrillic glyphs. Under Preview, choose "custom" and try typing some letters; if it works, the problem is the duplication, not a "bad" font per se.
If you still get ?s, try this:
Turn the fonts that work correctly back on; Then delete (not just disable) the fonts that aren't working correctly. Then, if the correct fonts are in your user folder, drag those fonts to the "computer" category on the left. I think that will move them to the "root" font folder so everyone can access them.
If the problem you are experiencing is happening for the same reason that mine happens, you may have to fix things in Font Book from time to time to keep it working correctly.
disable the cyrillic fonts that are stored in your user account,
Once more -- THERE ARE NO CYRILLIC FONTS AT USER ACCOUNT! None of fonts I see in the Font Book under User account, have cyrillic letters! So, there is nothing to disable/enable there! How many times should I repeat it?? The only cyrillic fonts I see, are in Administrator account, and all is working there. Though I see a duplication in Font Book, but it does not make my life harder. So, forget about duplication and lets look at the User account where there are no cyrillic fonts.
Lorinda wrote:
you may have to fix things in Font Book from time to time to keep it working correctly.
It's a very encouraging promission
OK, will try to find what are the file names for cyrillic fonts under the Admin account and where they are stored. Hope then I'll have more info to go ahead.
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:22 am Post subject:
I think maybe we are talking past each other here, and that the confusion is resulting because we are using the term "user" to refer to different things. If I understand you correctly, you have been using "User" to refer to a specific account (in contrast to the Admin account), while I have been using "user" more generically to distinquish between fonts found in a user account (either your admin or your user account) and fonts stored at the root or system level and accessible to everyone.
It may also be that I really don't understand the problem you are facing, if so I apologize.
Let me try again, and see if this makes more sense. In some cases I may repeating previous instructions/requests for information. This is because I find it hard to keep track of all those tidbits across several posts.
For the sake of our discussion:
"Admin" is the name of the Administrator account on the problematic computer. The cyrillic fonts work correctly in the Admin account
"abb" is the name of the User account on the problematic computer. The cyrillic fonts do not work correctly in the abb account
Log into the "Admin" account
Open Font Book
Select one of the problematic fonts
Go to Preview>Custom
Type some letters; do you get the correct glyphs or ?s?
Now, with the same font selected, Under Preview choose "Show Font" info
Where is the font located (look for the "location" line)?
/System/Library/Fonts/
or /Users/Admin/Library/Fonts/
Try this same thing with a duplicate of this font.
It is my guess that the correct version of the font will be found in /Users/Admin/Library/Fonts/
This would explain why you can't access the correct font from your abb user account.
I think I'll stop there for the moment; if this makes sense to you, and it seems to be addressing your issue more accurately, post back with what you found about the location of the correct fonts and we will try to take it from there.
By the way, if the problem you are experiencing is the same as the one I encounter from time to time, it is a problem with Max OSX, and not with NeoOffice itself.
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