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OPENSTEP
The One
Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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It is definitely close to Doom.
Play with Cocoa Bindings. You will fall in love with them.
Then you will play with shared libraries...and start cursing them for not being able to add value transformers that are syntax checked to interface builders...then realize that Objective-C categories are in fact not scoped on a per-object file basis...
ed |
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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good article.
i should get off my butt and finish the one i started shortly before meeting ed.
no, screw that. i will get off my butt and finish it.
so there.
-j |
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jakeOSX wrote: | good article.
i should get off my butt and finish the one i started shortly before meeting ed. |
What a load of bull are people spewing there.. "NeoOffice doesn't work with Spotlight" - wake up!
Though some are obviously right that Sun should just pour some money into Neo/J, come to an arrangement about project governance and licensing with Patrick and Ed (now that SISSL is gone) and bring the whole thing into the trunk. That would save time, effort and everyone a headache.
Oh wait, maybe I should have put that between <rant></rant> tags..
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"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi |
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pluby
The Architect
Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ovvldc wrote: | What a load of bull are people spewing there.. "NeoOffice doesn't work with Spotlight" - wake up!
Though some are obviously right that Sun should just pour some money into Neo/J, come to an arrangement about project governance and licensing with Patrick and Ed (now that SISSL is gone) and bring the whole thing into the trunk. That would save time, effort and everyone a headache. |
What I find most interesting in the blog comments to DB's blog and other blogs is that there seems to be an assumption that Sun is doing a Cocoa port. How Eric's announcement (i.e. a volunteer with no staff or funding just like Ed and I) has been interpreted to mean that Sun is going to staff and fund this project seems a bit of a leap.
Patrick |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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It feels like a mini-slashdot.... 
I think every bit of "mainstream" coverage has missed a few key nuances--and unfortunately, it's nuances that seem really important in this story--and in doing so have made leaps and spread FUD and so forth. The DB article, while fairly well-researched (it looks like he read the wiki!), is no different.
Part of that is because the stuff in the wiki, and in particular the NeoHistory article I wrote, is designed to be genteel rather than airing all the dirty laundry about who really did OOo 1.x for the Mac and vapourware and all of that, and partly because I was still collecting documentation on some of that stuff (Tony S vapourware, etc.).
The big thing everyone always seems to miss (aside from it's a volunteer vapourware port rather than an official Sun vapourware port) is that up until about this time last year, Ed was working on OOo/X11 in addition to Neo/C. The "people" who announced that additional native work was put off until 2.0/gsl rewrite for N*F were the same "people" engineering N*F and developing Neo/C and discovering Cocoa doesn't mesh well with OOo...i.e., Ed and Dan....
<sigh>
Smokey
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"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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JKT
The Anomaly
(earlier version)
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 434
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I can never resist these things so I posted my response to the blog... hope I didn't make any fsck-ups in my corrections as that would be as bad as the original mis-conceptions in the first place... please correct anything if I got it wrong!!
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly
Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| JKT wrote: | | I can never resist these things so I posted my response to the blog... hope I didn't make any fsck-ups in my corrections as that would be as bad as the original mis-conceptions in the first place... please correct anything if I got it wrong!! |
Looks good to me. I like your 'corrections' and could not have said better myself.
James |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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The N*F support is cross-platform, so it does apply to Macs (but the X11 team has not done anything with it, indeed), but it's only about applying platfrom widget looks, not allowing UI redesign/rearrangements for a true Aqua feel (aside from moving the menubar).
Edit: And I think you have to have a native (non-X11, for Mac OS X) vcl to get the Aqua widgets; otherwise, your native widgets are X11 widgets. Not positive on that point, though.
But that's probably too difficult to explain and keep people's attention  I thought it was a very good response/correction!
Smokey
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"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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pluby
The Architect
Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| sardisson wrote: | | Edit: And I think you have to have a native (non-X11, for Mac OS X) vcl to get the Aqua widgets; otherwise, your native widgets are X11 widgets. Not positive on that point, though. |
This is correct. To be more specific, OOo 2.0 only allows you to insert your own code that draws a native widget. You cannot actually put a native widget in directly as OOo expects to receive all user events where the drawing of a native widget is done whereas a real native widget would eat all of the events and cause all sorts of havoc.
I know, because Ed and I broke this rule when we implemented native menus and getting native menus in sync with OOo's event dispatching was a major hassle. 
Patrick |
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