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NeoOffice :: View topic - iKey says NeoOffice/J has no open window - bug?
iKey says NeoOffice/J has no open window - bug?
 
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:31 am    Post subject: iKey says NeoOffice/J has no open window - bug? Reply with quote

Hello there

In the absence of keyboard-activated menus in NOJ, I've been trying to set up keyboard shortcuts in the esteemed app iKey to mouseclick on the menu items in NOJ's active window.

The trouble is that iKey comes back to me saying that the application NeoOffice/J has no open window. I'm assuming that this has something to do with Ooo running within a java wrapper - I notice that when I use the Quit Anything app, it lists NOJ as soffice.bin (and until a patch or so ago, as something like javaAppStub - seems to have stopped doing that now) with no mention of NeoOffice/J.

Is there an obvious cure for this? Is there something you can tweak in the java wrapper that will enable iKey to see the open NOJ window as a NeoOffice/J open window? Or is the NOJ environment in some way doomed to be invisible to the aqua environment?

Thanks in advance for your time...

- yoxi
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pluby
The Architect
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Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11932

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't have any problem getting iKey 2.0b7 to send mouse clicks to Neo/J 1.1 Alpha 1. I registered a keyboard shortcut that emulates a mouse-click. Then, when I set my mouse over the Neo/J menus, and pressed my keyboard shortcut, the menu under the mouse opened up.

Patrick
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That ain't the issue here, alas - what I'm trying to get iKey to do is to position the mouse at x,y coords relative to the active NeoOffice/J window and click on e.g. the Tools menu item - but at least in my 10.3.5, neither v1.0.7 nor 2.0b7 of iKey can see an active window on which to click.

Either version of iKey is quite happy to do this in any other app I've tried it with. It simply can't see an open window on the desktop for NeoOffice/J in 10.3.5.

The only way I could do it at the moment is to get iKey to position the mouse relative to the whole screen, which will only work as long as I don't resize/move any NeoOffice/J windows. Bleh. Something is different about these windows...

- yoxi

PS For sure, I can assign keystrokes in Ooo itself to choose menu options, but I wanted (a) something that dropped down the menu itself and (b) more choice over key combo than Ooo offers. And now I'm just interested in why iKey keeps walking past the open windows...
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pluby
The Architect
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Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11932

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned in the bug that you filed, I tried iKey on Panther and iKey can't see any Carbon-based application at all.

Since Neo/J is a native Mac OS X application that displays Carbon windows, I have to conclude that there is a bug in iKey.

Of course, one other issue might be is that iKey probes applications by sending an application AppleEvents. Since Neo/J does not respond to AppleEvents, any AppleEvents sent to Neo/J will be ignored.

Patrick
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, okay, I'll take this up with the iKey developers.

I'm a bit puzzled because I tried out this 'move to here and click' shortcut with all of my carbon apps and in all of them apart from NeoOffice/J, iKey is quite happy to acknowledge that there is an open window, and to move/click on it; it's only in NeoOffice/J that I get the 'no window' alert.

Out of curiosity, I've tried it with other java-based apps I have too. NeoOffice/J is the only one that iKey can't see.

So perhaps it's the AppleEvents issue - I'll see what they say. In any case I guess it's more of a 'fact of life' than a bug, hey ho... Wink

- yoxi
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realise I should make it clear that I'm doing all my testing with the very effective iKey v1.0.7, as v2.0b7 is a horribly buggy beta still, and so most things in it don't work properly in the first place (not even the 'running applications' menu works properly in this beta...)

In v1.0.7, NeoOffice/J is the only app (out of loads that I've tried it with, carbon and java and whatever) that displays this weird behaviour & alert when it comes to attempting to position the mouse on an active window. That's why I wondered if this is a NeoOffice/J bug rather than an iKey bug - but we'll see if ScriptSoftware can come up with an explanation.
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yoxi
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Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iKey's developers have this to say:

The problem is that [NeoOffice/J] doesn't handle the accessibility API. May be it's related that it is java. (It was also the case of MS Excel X in the first versions).

Does this make sense to you, and if so, is there anything that can be done about it from the NeoOffice/J end, or am I just going to have to put up with it? Wink

- yoxi
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pluby
The Architect
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Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11932

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoxi wrote:
iKey's developers have this to say:

The problem is that [NeoOffice/J] doesn't handle the accessibility API. May be it's related that it is java. (It was also the case of MS Excel X in the first versions).

Does this make sense to you, and if so, is there anything that can be done about it from the NeoOffice/J end, or am I just going to have to put up with it? Wink


Yes it does make sense. Neo/J uses Java 1.3.1 which does not have any integration with Mac OS X's accessibility services. Such integration was not added until Java 1.4.1.

Unfortunately, upgrading to Java 1.4.1 is a major effort probably equal to upgrading Neo/J to the OOo 1.1.2 codebase so this will not happen for a while. It will happen someday, just not in the next few months.

The good news is that the underlying OOo code does support accessibility *if* Java 1.4.1 is used so when I upgrade Neo/J to Java 1.4.1, not only should iKey work, but OOo's accessibility features should too.

Patrick
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for the info, Patrick - I've been reading the forums for the last couple of weeks, and have picked up that the move to java 1.4.1 would be anything but trivial, so I won't be joggling your elbow... and meanwhile I can still use the Ooo keyboard shorcuts in Configure to get some of the items I'm after.

Perhaps by the time 1.4.1 gets into NeoOffice/J, iKey v2 will actually work too and I can arrange a wedding ceremony for them... Wink

Meanwhile I'm very grateful for your work, and the time you've taken to help me suss out this problem.

- yoxi
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