Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:22 pm Post subject: Several Newby Questions
I'm a very enthusiastic new user of OOo 1.1.2 under OS 10.3.4 on a TiBook 550 and I have a few questions. I have tried to find the answers in the docs and related forums without success. I hope this is the correct place to post to. Sorry for the length, but I thought I'd try to get everything I could think of out of the way at once.
** For OpenOffice.org Mac help, is it better to post to this Trinity/NeoOffice Ooo forum or to the OOo OS X Test forum? It seems many of the same people hang out both places.
** When I start OOo and X11 via Start OpenOffice.org, X11 leaves an almost blank (just a prompt) terminal window displayed behind the OOo app. I can't find a default in X11 to not leave this window open, but I'm not very familiar w/ X11. Is there a way to automatically get rid of it?
** When I type some text in OOo, select it, then click on the 'B' for bold or 'i' for italics buttons, nothing happens to the selected text. The 'U' for underline button works as expected. What's wrong? (I have also been looking at NeoOffice/J, and the bold and italics buttons work properly in it.)
** Files I create in NeoOffice open OOo when I double-click them. Is there a way of forcing the launch of NeoOffice/J instead, other than removing OOo.
** Under Tools->Configure->Keyboard, not all of the keyboard shortcuts which appear in the app menus appear in this dialog box. Example: control-s for save. Why is this? Also, can I redefine some of these commands to the command or option keys, or are these two modifier keys just unavailable? BTW, for some reason _command_-s performs a save (it's the only 'command' modifier which seems to work) as well as control-s. Is this a hidden feature? ( I haven't yet tried the suggestion of turning off the X11 input preference: "Use Keyboard Equivalents under X11. I've been usig NeoOffice/J instead.
** How do I import a new dictionary into OOo, ideally by adding the entries to the 'standard' dictionary rather than a truly new dictionary? I investigated Tools->Spellcheck->Check->Options->New, but didn't know what to put in the new dictionary name field. I tried a path to the one I wanted, but it didn't seem to work. I solved the problem by opening the dictionary document I wanted to import, running the spell check on it and pressing 'Add' about 400 times. Is there a more elegant way? Should I just replace the 'standard.dic' file in my OOo prefs wordbook with a custom, carriage-return-delimited text file of the same name?
** I'm upgrading from Microsoft Word 5.1a for the Mac, an oldy but definite goody. Are there any plans for a translator for this version to OOo? Word 6 seems to be the oldest import format. I tried to import some of my 5.1a slightly complicated templates, but they lost most of the formatting.
** In Microsoft Word (v5.1a anyway), you can press the zero key on the numeric pad to cycle through the last three cursor position -- very handy for returning to where you were typing after correcting an error you noticed somewhere else in the text. Is there a similar feature in OOo?
** This is a very small point but it bugs me. My fifth grade English teacher, Mrs. DeLeon, was adamant that 'is where' and 'is when' were extremely poor useage of the language. There are numerous examples of 'This is where you <do something>' in the otherwise excellent popup and hypertext help system. Why not just say '<do something>' or '<do something> here' and leave out the poor grammar? If I, as a semi-literate engineer, can be aware of this issue, perhaps OOo can be too. If fixing this is just a matter of editing a text file or two, I happily volunteer for the job.
** Perhaps this is off the wall, but has anyone approached Apple for funding of Ooo on OS X or NeoOffice/J development, perhaps as a replacement for the aging AppleWorks?
** Finally, 'Ooo' is the abbreviation for OpenOffice.org. What's the official abbreviation for NeoOffice/J? 'NOJ', 'NeoJ', or something else?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide and especially for bringing such an insanely great piece of free software to the Mac!
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Several Newby Questions
Fred,
I can answer the Neo/J questions.
fmoore wrote:
** Files I create in NeoOffice open OOo when I double-click them. Is there a way of forcing the launch of NeoOffice/J instead, other than removing OOo.
Just reinstall Neo/J. I posted a new release today so if you download and install Neo/J after OOo, Neo/J will be the default. Installing OOo after Neo/J causes OOo to be default. In other words, last one installed wins.
fmoore wrote:
** Finally, 'Ooo' is the abbreviation for OpenOffice.org. What's the official abbreviation for NeoOffice/J? 'NOJ', 'NeoJ', or something else?
I generally is Neo/J but that is just my preference.
** When I start OOo and X11 via Start OpenOffice.org, X11 leaves an almost blank (just a prompt) terminal window displayed behind the OOo app. I can't find a default in X11 to not leave this window open, but I'm not very familiar w/ X11. Is there a way to automatically get rid of it?
You can stop the XTerm window from opening every time Ooo starts up by editing a file called xinitrc in the /private/etc/X11/xinit folder on your startup volume - you need to go down to the end of the file and edit the line that reads xterm & so that it reads # xterm & instead - this turns it into a comment (you might decide you want it back later, so this is better than deleting it!) - and save the file.
You can just open it in TextEdit, but first of all you'll probably need to change the permissions on the folder it's in before OSX will let you save the edited file.
The quickest way to get to the file is to do a Cmd-F in the Finder and then search for xinitrc (its folder is a hidden one, so search for it in Invisible Items). If you click on the xinitrc file in the Search Results window it'll show you the folder path to the file, and then you can open the X11 folder, do cmd-I Get Info on the xinit folder and change its permissions to read & write.
Not the most user-friendly of options to change, is it?
Quote:
** Files I create in NeoOffice open OOo when I double-click them. Is there a way of forcing the launch of NeoOffice/J instead, other than removing OOo.
Incidentally, another way to make your Ooo docs open with Neo/J (without having to reinstall Neo/J) is to do Get Info on one of them, change its Open With to NeoOfficeJ, and then click on the button below to 'Use this application to open all documents like this.' Of course, you'll have to do this once with each type of doc you use in Ooo (i.e. writer, calc, impression, etc.) but that's still sometimes quicker than reinstalling Neo/J if you've also got patches to apply and so on. Either is good...
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Several Newby Questions
I'll tackle a few more
fmoore wrote:
** For OpenOffice.org Mac help, is it better to post to this Trinity/NeoOffice Ooo forum or to the OOo OS X Test forum? It seems many of the same people hang out both places.
Trinity is definitely more active than the OOoDocs Mac OS X Testing forum. Some of us try to check the latter regularly (Terry Teague, author of Start OpenOffice.org is the best at it), but there seem to be more people here on a regular basis.
fmoore wrote:
** When I type some text in OOo, select it, then click on the 'B' for bold or 'i' for italics buttons, nothing happens to the selected text. The 'U' for underline button works as expected. What's wrong? (I have also been looking at NeoOffice/J, and the bold and italics buttons work properly in it.)
This is the "font bug" I spent a lot of time (as an end user, not a sw engineer/programmer) trying to nail down. The short answer is that because OOo/X11 can't use native Mac fonts, they have to be converted, and something either in the conversion or the OOo code (my guess at the moment is on the former) prevents OOo from "merging" the styles into a family that can be recognized by the B/I buttons. (I.e. Times(.dfont) becomes Times Roman.ttf, Times Italic.ttf, Times Bold.ttf, Times Bold Italic.ttf).
There are a couple of work-arounds: 1) Select the appropriate "Styled Font" from the font menu, 2) Use one of the "built-in" fonts (with the printer icon), 3) use Windows TTFs (the Bitstream Vera families included with OOo, or MS Core/Web Fonts from the Font Autopilot (note that these are older versions of the MS fonts and don't include a lot of Unicode chars, if you use them) or 4) use NeoJ If you're really interested, you can read the gory details here and here
Thanks, Patrick, yoxi, and Smokey for your prompt and illuminating answers to my questions. Unfortunately, I have been up to my eyeballs in digital alligators, so it's taken me two months to respond (though I did read your responses as soon as you posted them). The upside is that I have had more time to get acquainted with OOo and Neo/J.
I have a few more clarifications and questions I'm hoping you could address:
Old Stuff
I inquired:
>>** Files I create in NeoOffice open OOo when I double-click them. Is
>>there a way of forcing the launch of NeoOffice/J instead, other than
>>removing OOo.
Patrick replied:
>Just reinstall Neo/J. I posted a new release today so if you download
>and install Neo/J after OOo, Neo/J will be the default. Installing OOo >after Neo/J causes OOo to be default. In other words, last one installed >wins.
Patrick, I installed Neo/J 1.1a2p5 _after_ OOo. OOo insisted on launching as the default, so I just used the Get Info app-set method that yoxi suggested. Thought I should let you know in case something is going wrong under the hood.
Smokey, thanks for clearing up the bold/italics font problem in OOo. That was yet another (and very important) reason to go with Neo/J.
New Stuff (I've looked through the threads and can't find the answers.)
I just installed the Neo/J 1.1a2p5 and WOW am I impressed! Just like a real Mac app!!! THANK YOU PATRICK and all the other generous and enterprising souls who made it happen.
I have a few additional questions which apply to both OOo as well as Neo/J, although I'm exclusively using Neo/J under Mac OS 10.3.4.
** Thanks for adding cmd-y for Restore/Redo. The fewer new tricks I have to learn, the better.
** In the AutoCorrection settings, I noticed that neither the Replace nor Word Correction windows have any entries. In the books I've been reading on OOo, there are always entries, and the same entries from reference to reference so it looks like a standard file. Where can I get these lists so I can use them in OOo or Neo/J? And how do I install them?
** Are there keyboard commands to
- increase/decrease font size (on the Mac it's cmd-sht-> or cmd-sht-<)
- open the Character or Paragraph formatting windows?
I couldn't find any, nor a way to add them through the keyboard command window.
** Microsoft Word, version 5.1a for the Mac anyway, had a great feature where one could cycle through the last three cursor positions by pressing the zero key on the numeric pad. If you went back in your text to correct something, this was a great way to instantly return to where you were originally typing. Does OOo have anything like this? The numeric-pad zero just produces a zero.
** In Configure->Keyboard, it appears that all the available keystrokes are pre-entered; one cannot add to them. Thus, one can't apply cmd-\ or cmd-< or to an action. Further, there are no optioned (alt-ed) modifiers available. I read in one of the other threads that there was a problem including the option/alt modifier because of Unicode confusion; however, I don't see how it could be any different than the shift modifier. But then, I'm not the programmer. Question: Any way to hack OOo or Neo/J to add more keystroke combinations?
** When I try to configure the Object bar to _not_ show the left-to-right and right-to-left formatting buttons, they come back after a relaunch of Neo/J. A bug or a feature? [later] Solved--if I turn off support for Asian and CTL languages, the buttons stay gone.
** I have had several instances of having Neo/J start to launch but them quit before anything shows up. Trashing the prefs sometimes fixes the problem (as noted in another thread), but you might want to warn people more prominently to make backups of their prefs since quite a bit of time can go into setting them up and also a copy of a virgin install of the app. Often it's the app not the prefs which has been corrupted. Do you have any idea what's causing the corruption? Just curious if there' a way to avoid it. Sympton is that all is working fine, I quit the app, and the next time I launch it, it won't finish launching. Does not seem to be permissions related as far as I can tell. Mostly it seems as though making too many changes to the Tools->Options windows at one time causes a problem.
** Finally, just because inquiring minds want to know, why is Neo/J named _Neolithic_ Office for Java? And who is Edward H. Peterlin and why does he own the trademark to NeoOffice when Patrick is evidently doing all the work?
Thanks again guys for all the help. It's greatly appreciated. I think you've located the soft underbelly of the M$ beast and have a poisoned-tipped spear poised to strike a fatal blow. Keep up the GREAT work!
** I have had several instances of having Neo/J start to launch but them quit before anything shows up. Trashing the prefs sometimes fixes the problem (as noted in another thread), but you might want to warn people more prominently to make backups of their prefs since quite a bit of time can go into setting them up and also a copy of a virgin install of the app. Often it's the app not the prefs which has been corrupted. Do you have any idea what's causing the corruption? Just curious if there' a way to avoid it. Sympton is that all is working fine, I quit the app, and the next time I launch it, it won't finish launching. Does not seem to be permissions related as far as I can tell. Mostly it seems as though making too many changes to the Tools->Options windows at one time causes a problem.
Did Neo/J ever crash? If so, and you hadn't installed any of the Neo/J patches before the crash, the preferences would get corrupted. In the latest patch, crashes are properly detected so that the OOo code can do its graceful closing of the preference files.
fmoore wrote:
** Finally, just because inquiring minds want to know, why is Neo/J named _Neolithic_ Office for Java? And who is Edward H. Peterlin and why does he own the trademark to NeoOffice when Patrick is evidently doing all the work?
Ed Peterlin (aka OPENSTEP) is the guy who set up the Trinity forums, pays for and runs the neooffice.org servers, and developed the Aqua menus for Neo/J. AFAIK, he trademarked NeoOffice to ensure that no one else trademarks it which would force us to find another name for our project. Fortunately, Ed is a smart guy and thinks of these.
** Are there keyboard commands to
- increase/decrease font size (on the Mac it's cmd-sht-> or cmd-sht-<)
There's a direct way to do increase/reduce font in Writer, but not in Calc - in Writer, you can make those buttons visible on the Object toolbar, or you can add key combos (I've used cmd-shift-up/down, as the angle-brackets aren't an option in Neo/J keyboard options) - you'll find 'increase font' and 'reduce font' in the Format submenu in the Tools->Configure...->Keyboard dialog. The font size goes up/down by 2 points each time instead of 1, which is a bit coarse-grained, I think.
But as I say, the option's not there in Calc. I'm researching a way to either get those Writer functions over into the global Format list, or to do this in Calc via macros, and will let you know if I get anywhere.
Quote:
- open the Character or Paragraph formatting windows?
If by this you mean bring up the dialogs as if you'd chosen Character... or Paragraph... from the Format menu, you've got to be a lateral thinker to get these: for Paragraph... assign a key combo to 'Format: Paragraph' in the Format submenu, and for Character... assign a key combo to 'Font Attributes' in the Format submenu, as described above.
Consistent only in its inconsistency...
- yoxi
**update** To save you time faffing around, it isn't possible to add increase/decrease font as menu options (in order to sneak in your own OSX keyboard shortcuts, as described below) - they just don't appear in the list of available options for menu items, presumably because the menu items are Neo/J system-wide as opposed to Writer/Calc/whatever specific.
Last edited by yoxi on Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
** In Configure->Keyboard, it appears that all the available keystrokes are pre-entered; one cannot add to them. Thus, one can't apply cmd-\ or cmd-< or to an action. Further, there are no optioned (alt-ed) modifiers available. I read in one of the other threads that there was a problem including the option/alt modifier because of Unicode confusion; however, I don't see how it could be any different than the shift modifier. But then, I'm not the programmer. Question: Any way to hack OOo or Neo/J to add more keystroke combinations?
There are a couple of things to address here.
First, about the option key. Other platforms use their equivalent of the option key as a "command-producing" key shortcut, i.e., they'd use opt-s for save (the Mozilla folks seem pretty bad about trying to assign opt-key as command shortcuts!). On the Mac, opt-key is reserved for keyboard entry (opt-s is ß)--sort of like shift, opt is only a modifier key, not a "command" key. Cmd-opt and Shift-cmd-opt *are* valid command shortcuts on the Mac, though.
I believe it was Ed who posted somewhere here on trinity that he had lobbied the OOo folks to allow Cmd-opt-key to be a valid command shortcut for the Mac and the OOo folks either ignored him or denied the request. The fact that the Mac allows ,>< and all sorts of other keys to be valid shortcuts (when paired with cmd, of course), also seems to be lost on the OOo folks making these decisions.
However, all is not lost for users of Neo/J (SOL with OOo/X11, though). Now that we have Aqua menus, you can use the OS's ability to customize keyboard shortcuts to assign other keys (as long as they don't conflict with existing shortcuts in OOo). Open the "Keyboard & Mouse" pane of the System Preferences and click on the "Keyboard Shortcuts" tab. Click on the "Application Shortcuts" item in the box, and then the + button at the bottom left. Select Neo/J as your application, enter the name of the Neo/J menu item you want to assign a shortcut to and then the desired shortcut. (Be sure to match the spelling and ... or … exactly). Restart Neo/J and voilà !
Using the combination of the OOo-native menu editing and the System Preferences method (plus a little hack), I was able to add a "Preferences…" item to my Neo/J Edit menu (Mac OS 7/8/9 style is better than Windows!) and assign it the standard cmd-, shortcut. (See my screenshots which Ed has linked from the www.neooffice.org homepage--thanks Ed!) The hack is because that keystroke is assigned by default in Mac OS X (to Preferences…), the OS won't let me assign it to prevent conflicts! You can assign it to something eles (shift-cmd-,) and then edit the appropriate NSUserKeyEquivalents key in the ~/Library/Preferences/org.neooffice.neooffice.java.plist to remove the shift ($) reference.
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If fixing this is just a matter of editing a text file or two, I happily volunteer for the job.
